Saturday, February 17, 2007

Minue Quote

A good minue quote to remind myself how important it is to get out my board and actually play sequences on the board, instead of just clicking through them on the computer.

"Go is learned by your hands, not by your head. There is very weird myth of learning Go. ==> 'I watched tutor's review, and explanation, (private, or free or whatever,like kgs plus) and I understand what he explained . So I learned a LOT.'

It is completely wrong.

This is just like this ==> 'I am an aikido practioner, and today, in my dojo, I watched my master's demonstration, and I understand how his skills works. ok. I learned a lot!'

In fact, he has not learned anything yet. To learn it, he must practice the skills many times, by his body, not by his head. If not, he can not use the skill."

Go is learned by our hands, not by our head, just like aikido practice"

Wise words. So I am getting my goban out more often again to study, instead of sitting at the computer where I distract myself too much anyway.

3 comments:

ChiyoDad said...

Whoa. I'm confused. What is minue saying exactly?

In martial arts, like any sport, we rely on muscle memory. We train our bodies so that the unnatural acts of combat become "natural" as the situation demands it (you just "do it" in a state of "no mind").

This is a form of habit-programming so that the mind no longer needs to think. Is minue saying that we need to hard-code our Go moves into our mind-body system?

Sorin Gherman said...

I don't think it matters how you make your moves - physically placing stones on the board, or through mouse-clicks, or just dictating the coordinates to someone else (Fujiwara-no-Sai style :-) ) - really, Go IS learned by our brains, not our hands.

(Although, on a jokingly note: Tei Meiko 9d used to say that when playing teaching games with amateurs, only his hands got tired, not his brain :-) )

I understand the analogy with martial-arts, watching the master vs. practicing his moves, but the analogy in Go would be watching the master's game vs. replaying it, say. Replaying it is definitely better than just passively watching, and it's one reason behind the "one way to improve is to learn 100 pro games by heart" advice.

All these being said, I do find much greater pleasure in replaying games on a real goban.

Minue622 said...

I will assume readers would be so naive like a 7yo girl.

and Here is a very straight-forward explanation of the real message of my advice, not using any simple rhetorical expression.

==> watching lesson of your Go tutor is not the end of learning, but just beginning of learning.

For example, let's assume our Go tutor will review on our recent game in some days

Then, Do self-reivew and analysis on ur own, before taking ur Go tutor's review. and comare ur own analysis to ur go tutor's reivew, and check what u missed in ur self revew.

But, we are usually so busy with our real life stuff, so may not be able to do self review as prepartion.

then, at least, you should replay
variations and anaylsis on ur real
board (if u dont have a real board,
then use comp go ban), and examine
why and how his suggestion is better and works, and also should check if there is something wrong with his variations.

Ideally, you should be able to explain every points of ur go tutor's review to other ppl easily . (teaching is the best way to learn)

So, don't think that u can learn something good, just by seeing ur go turor's suggestion passively, saying "oh cool, nice,, blah blah" in ur lesson time.


A bit exaggerating, it's no more than enyoing ur Go tutor's "Go review show". Of course, it's not bad to enjoy a good Go review show by someone, but, enjoying Go review show itslef is not enough for ur improvement.

One more thign to point.

it certainly "Matters" how u make ur moves from my experience (including others)

Playing out on the real board is
the best, replaying on comp board is not that bad, Following sequencec by clicking ur mouse is not recommendable , but better than doing nothing.

borrowing my freind's speaking (who is a weak Go player, but a professonal computer programmer), when u study programming, After reading some the book, (or chapters) it's the best to
type examplary codes by ur hands ,and the second is to use "copy and paste" codes and run it.

Reading codes by ur eyes is not that recomemable, but better than doing nothihng. Same for Go.

When u read a joseki book, replay variations on your board.

when u watch Go tutor's review on ur game or pro games, replay the game sequence and variations on the board, and examine and explore other possibilities on ur own after ur lesson.

When u watch pro's real game on broadcasting (for example, via padook T.V), replay the game on ur board and check which move is not understandale to you.

Here is a summary.

Just as you can't be programmer just by reading many programming books on ur eyes withoug any practice on ur hands. Same for Go.


It is what i meant by "learn by ur hands ,not by ur brains". If someone can not catch the real meaning of this simple rhertorical expression, taking it as literally,, well......too naive?

A bit surprized...
My advice in nanny's quote was for adults who can undertand rhetorics, not for innocent 7yo girl...